Curse

LoneDust · May 26, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Recently, the issue of celestial sigils became the center of debate between groups of hardcore PvEers who don't wish to PvP at all, and the group of hardcore PvPers who hold grudge over having to "grind" through the game just to have fun. Since the newest update on sigil drops and sigil trader, there's this idea going around right now: "it's ok to whine about having to farm for gold to get sigils, but the complaints about having to play the game meaninglessly just to get more skills are completely ignored." If you ask me, it seems like Arenanet is siding with one group ambiguously.

I'd like to bring up an idea that was debated for a long time: allow players to unlock all skills for PvP pre-mades.

Last time when this was a major discussion on fan site forums, such idea was welcomed by most hardcore PvP fans. Having such ability will allow them to avoid what they considered grind: meaningless hours spent to get exerience just to obtain a skill point to buy another skill they think would fit in their builds. However, some small population of the players hate it with extreme passion because they believe that "skills" should be earned from playing through the game. Their argument is that no one else should get the same stuff for free while they choose to earn them the hard way. From what I understood, that was not an ignorant argument; that was just their expectation towards what they think a RPG should be.

When the game released, many people I know complained about the changes between the beta and the released version of the game. At the same time, we also played it like suckers, and played it 24/7, because we still love this game. A month has passed, I've played through the story, finished almost all the quests, and passed the end-game. The only thing left in this game for me to play are the new EAs, WaW area/quests, and the ever-changing PvP content. Presently, many of my friends and guildmates are well into their second level 20 character because they want to be able to unlock more skills for PvP. However, I for one don't find playing through the same game content just so that I can play a profession well in PvP rewarding. One major problem is that once you've played a mission, you can't really be surprised by it anymore. Even at a difficult area like the Underworld, once you know about the monsters, you can make a group build to fight them. After all, the monster never change their skills, their attributes or amount of hit points.

Slowly, more and more players will reach end-game, and they will complete all the quests for their first character. By that time, will they start losing interest in this game like I do? The fast solution is to introduce players to the PvP environment: ever-changing, fast-paced, competitive play. However, will everyone be interested in playing the same stories over and over again to unlock more skills so they have more options making their PvP characters? That concept is the exact opposite of what drawed many of us into Guild Wars. Players are confined in the limited choices of skills they have, and they have to spend more hours playing quests they've already done just so they can make a better build.
The story will no longer be new; the quests will be repetitive. What will Arenanet do to keep people interested in playing?

Here are my suggestions:
i) Allow, or create a reward mechanism to allow a pvp-premades to unlock all skills. How about reward skill points per rank in PvP?
or
ii) Make missions and quests more challenging, rewarding and more interesting for those who've done it many times. Increase the skill available for mobs and bosses. Add some more surprise elements into the game.

I really wish some changes to be made to the game. Currently, when I log into GW, I either wait for other guildies to show up for tombs, or to carry guildies' lowbie characters through missions over and over again. Very often I find myself reading the flame wars on the forums instead of playing the games. At this point, they are a lot more entertaining than the game itself. Please, Anet, please do something to help us bored players who are losing interest in this game.

Mayar third Keeper · May 27, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Noooooooooooooooo
Guild wars is PvE && PvP Dont get rid of one of them. Dont make it a "shooter" its good the way it is.

Silmor · May 27, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

He isn't suggesting getting rid of either, he's suggesting to remove the need for people who are interested exclusively in PvP to play PvE. People enthusiastic about PvE will still have full access to the content - the 'unlock all skills' button would function for premade PvP characters only.

Like he pointed out, the only people who would be upset by this are the ones who feel others should suffer as much as they did in order to reap the enjoyment; they want invested time to reflect on your character strength.

Which goes against:
- people shouldn't be forced to do something they don't enjoy in order to be any good for something they do enjoy
- player skill should determine your strength in the game, not hours spent

Those were two of the selling points of Guild Wars, and implementing this suggestion would simply move the game closer towards fulfilling that promise.

Loviatar · May 27, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneDust

Here are my suggestions:
i) Allow, or create a reward mechanism to allow a pvp-premades to unlock all skills. How about reward skill points per rank in PvP?
or
.

first i do not pvp at all which may give me an unbiased view on your first suggestion.

your second idea on the missions i have no objection to at all but what you are suggesting in the first is completely unbalanced for the pvp players and stinks.

the top guilds win, get skill points to get even more skills to make it easier to win even more skill points.

the guilds that need them the most are the ones that are shut out the hardest.

i have no real sympathy for the pvp fanatics but i do have sympathy for the underdog in a loaded crapshoot.

and that is about as loaded as you could get

LoneDust · May 27, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Loviatar's argument is valid, however, what I suggested offers an alternative method of obtaining skills by doing something PvPers like, instead of doing something they dislike. Under the current circumstance, there would be no fairness untill all characters, pvp or rp, have automatic unlock-all-skill-and-runes-and-item-mods option. Needless to say, doing that would eliminate more than half the fun in a rpg.

Put your feet in the shoes of PvPers, would you take a reward-per-win system or reward-per-"grind" system? The suggestion needs work, but the choice is obvious.

(also thanks Silmor for responding =)

Sarus · May 27, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

In response to Loviatar,

Lonedust's system is no different than the current system. Currently PvPers that have lots of time to play are rewarded with better runes and skills which make them better in PvP since they have more time to grind.

LD's suggestion just replaces the grind with playing in tombs. Unless you have an unlock all skills button people that play more are obviously going to have an advantage. You could even keep the current system of grind in place but just provide better rewards for PvPing to give another option to people that loathe watching cut scenes over and over just to get some skill they need (or rune).

Ludic · May 27, 2005, 04:46 AM // 04:46

What I don't understand is why people don't change their secondary profession and then go get the skills related to the 2nd profession by buying them from the skill trainers, if you don't want to play through. It'd cost some gold, but I believe that's how it was intended to be done, and why you're allowed to change your secondary profession after you ascend.

goku19123 · May 27, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&page=1&pp=25